Allah in the Quran, Chapter 77
01 Jan 2015
Section IX: ALLAH AND PROPHETS/MESSENGERS
ALLAH AND JESUS
001 As this book mainly is about Allah, this chapter about those two mainly is about close connection/no close connection to the god(?), and in case to which one of the two (in spite of Muhammad's claims both the two gods and their teachings and moral codes are fundamentally too different - they are not the same god) - and if Jesus is the son of the god or not. (For Muhammad - and Islam - it will be disastrous if Jesus is the son of the god. Then Muhammad definitely is not the greatest. And it also will mean that it is Jesus' teaching in NT which is the correct one, and Islam a made up, pagan religion.)
002 Also remember that Jesus lived well inside times of written history - they started little by little at least 800 years BC in those areas. Not much is written in non-religious sources about Jesus himself (as far as we know he is mentioned by 3 - included the respected Josefus Flavius). But we know quite a lot about the religious, political, and cultural situation. What the Quran tells about Jesus and Allah is plain fantasy - there was no god like Allah in that area (or other places), and no religion like Islam at the time of Jesus (or before). Historical facts simply.
003 Also if Jesus had tried to "teach" about the known pagan Arab god al-Lah/Allah, he had gotten very few followers, and in addition been killed by the harsh clergy in a short time. It would be just like if some local Arab started in Mecca or by the Kabah to tell the people there that Islam and the Quran is wrong - the only valid religion is Christianism and the only true book the Bible!! - or may be Ba'al and his teaching. What do Muslims think would happen if such a man started to get flocks of followers? - and the situation in the old Jerusalem had been even worse, as they knew al-Lah was a pagan, polytheistic, and made up god - like Ba'al.
###########Another - and serious - point is that to "explain" that the Quran means something different from what it really says, is to corrupt it.
Also: What is sure, is that no god ever made a holy book as full of wrong facts, other errors, contradictions, unclear language, etc. as the Quran. ###############Besides: Which one of the 20-30 known versions accepted by Islam of the Quran (see 15/9c) - if any (and there were even more versions through the times) - is in case the correct one?
Finally: Always when you read the Quran, Hadiths, and other Islamic books, you should remember that Muhammad accepted the use of and himself used dishonesty in many forms in words and deeds. Even if the names are younger, it was he who institutionalized dishonesty like al-Taqiyya (the lawful lie), Kitman (the lawful half-truth), Hilah (the lawful pretending/circumventing), the use of deceit ("war is deceit" - and "everything" is war), betrayal (f.x. the peace delegation from Khaybar), and even the disuse of oaths (2/225, 5/89, 16/91, 66/2 - and the star case 3/54 (if Allah could cheat, cheating is ok)), which also includes the disuse of words and promises, as they are weaker than oaths = when oaths can be disused, so can words and promises. On top of this it is very clear from the Quran and all other central Islamic books, that Muhammad also liked respect and power and women. Combine these lusts with his acceptance of and personal use of dishonesty - even the gravest kinds: How reliable are that kind of men normally? - and how true and reliable are their never proved claims and tales?
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*004 2/87d: “We (the god*) gave Jesus - - - clear (signs) - - -”. Yes, if the Bible speaks the truth, Jesus had clear signs. But the Jew Jesus was speaking about the Jewish (and Christian) god Yahweh. Now Muslims like to tell that Allah and Yahweh is the same god, but that is not possible unless that god is mentally ill. There is so big difference between Yahweh, especially as we meet him in NT and its New Covenant - f.x. Luke 22/20 - (the teachings on which the Christian religion is based), and the hard and bloody and unforgiving warrior god we meet especially in the some 22-24 surahs from Medina, that it is not possible it can be the same one - not unless he at least is deeply schizophrenic.
*005 2/107e: “And besides Him ye (people*) have neither patron nor helper.” Continued from 2/107c: Well, Jesus told many times and in front of lots of witnesses that he could help, and even the Quran admits that Jesus was honest.
##006 2/116a: “They say; ‘Allah has begotten a son'”, (which the Quran vehemently denies*). But Jesus often called God/Yahweh father, and thus contradicted the Quran - there were many, many witnesses to this. If he spoke the truth - and even the Quran says he was honest - this in case means the Quran is wrong here. (Yahweh is called the father of Jesus at least 204 times in the Bible, and Jesus the son of Yahweh at least 89 times, according to our latest leafing through the Bible - and we hardly have found all places). And remember: In spite of undocumented claims from Islam, science has shown that the Bible is not falsified. The same Islam has proved even more thoroughly by not finding any falsifications in all the tens of thousands relevant old manuscripts, not to mention how strongly they prove the same by having to resort to made up scriptures like f.x. "the 'gospel' of Barnabas (which may be one of the many "scriptures" Muslims in Spain made up during the 800s and 900s AD. There also is a possibility that it was made not in Spain, but in Baghdad (actually science tends to believe it is from Baghdad). Remember here Islam's rules for al-Taqiyya - the lawful lie: Al-Taqiyya, etc. is permitted in several cases, and not only permitted, but should be used "if necessary" to defend or to forward Islam) - a very good proof for that they lack true facts and arguments, as you do not stoop to bluffs and dishonesty, if you have good facts.
Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.
*007 2/253c: “- - - to Jesus- - - We (Allah*) gave Clear (Signs) - - -.” Hardly Allah in case. The god of Jesus was Yahweh. (Jesus simply had got few followers and been killed much earlier if he had preached about a known pagan god (al-Lah) from a neighboring pagan country - the religious situation in Israel at that time makes the Quran's claim here impossible.)
008 3/47e: "He (Allah*) saith to it, "Be" and it is!" May be Yahweh just said "Be a son" and the fetus Jesus was. After all parthenogenesis - growing an offspring from just the female egg - happens frequently in nature in "lower" species, and are today possible to make even for somewhat higher beings by humans. To do the same in a human should not be too difficult for a god. The same for changing or exchanging the X-chromosome for a Y one to make a boy instead of a girl (normal parthenogenesis always gives female children) - it may be within what is possible for mere humans in some years or a few decades.
###009 3/50e: (Jesus said:) "So fear Allah and obey me". This is one of Muhammad's slogans, and then of course it was good policy to claim older prophets had said the same. But what Jesus normally said, was "follow me", which is something very different - deep down so different that it is one of the proofs for that Allah - especially as you meet him in the surahs from Medina, and thus in the little abrogated parts of the Quran - is not the same god as Yahweh. Definitely not.
##010 3/51a: (Jesus said*): “It is Allah who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him”. Contradicted by the Bible, to say the least of it - in the Bible Jesus' connection was to Yahweh (but then the Quran wrongly mixes Yahweh and Allah, even though the fundamentals of the teachings are too different for such a claim to be true). But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.
Remember here that now we are in times of written history and exact knowledge. There was no god like Allah, no religion like Islam, and no book like the Quran anywhere in the Roman Empire neither at the time of Jesus, nor any time later until after 610 AD, when Muhammad started his mission.
011 3/52d: “Said the Disciples (of Jesus*): ‘We are Allah’s helpers: we believe in Allah, and do thou (Jesus*) bear witness that we are Muslims". Definitely not to be found in the Bible. And definitely not in the according to history strongly Yahweh-believing Israel around 30 AD. That they confessed belief in a known pagan god - al-Lah/Allah - from a neighboring country is totally unlikely.
*012 3/52h: Said the disciples: “- - - and thou (Jesus*) bear witness that we are Muslims”. See 3/51a and 3/52d above. Besides the word hardly had a meaning 600 years before Muhammad.
013 3/55a: "- - - Allah said: "O Jesus! - - - I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: then shall ye all return to me - - -:" There also is hope for Christians - - - if not this is one of the many verses in the Quran which are abrogated - made invalid - by later and harsher verses. Much of the mild parts of the Quran are abrogated.
014 3/69c: (Allah said:) "'Be' and he (Adam/Jesus?*) was". This is in strict contradiction to the verse claiming the god could not have a son, because he had no woman. As shown here, the god could create a man, according to the Quran.
015 4/157f: "We killed Christ Jesus - - - the Messenger of Allah - - -". Wrong. For one thing not even his worst enemies claimed Jesus was a prophet of Allah (or al-Lah) - the pagan god al-Lah who "lived" in the not too distant Arabia, and not one soul in Jerusalem thought about al-Lah there and then. But neither did they call him a prophet or messenger of Yahweh - the reason why they killed him was just that it was claimed, and many believed, he was a false prophet claiming to be a prophet for Yahweh, directly opposing of what the Quran here tells they said.
016 4/158c: “Nay, Allah raised him (Jesus*) up to Himself (in Heaven*) - - -.” Contradicted by the Bible, which tells that this only happened after Jesus' death and resurrection. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.
017 4/159e: "- - - on the Day of Judgment he (Jesus*) will be a witness against them (sinners*) - - -". Why does an omniscient god need witnesses? Especially if he predestines everything?
018 4/171h: “Christ Jesus was - - - a Messenger of Allah - - -”. Islam will have to prove this, as he definitely was no messenger of Allah but for Yahweh - for explanations about this see 3/51a above.
019 4/171i: “Christ Jesus was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah - - -”. Muhammad could not afford that Jesus was anything more than a normal prophet - in that case he himself impossible could be the greatest.
020 4/171s: “- - - (far Exalted is He (Allah*)) above having a son”. If the Quran here talks only about Allah, that may be correct. But if it talks about an Allah claimed identical to Yahweh, we have to remind Muslims of the fact that Jesus many times and in front of many witnesses called Yahweh his father – the word “father” as a statement of the relationship between Jesus and Yahweh is used at least 204 times in the NT according to our latest leafing through it, and the word “son” at least 89 times, many of those times by Jesus himself. And even the Quran agrees to that Jesus was reliable. And we remind you that in spite of what Islam and the Quran claim without any documentation about falsifications of the Bible, science clearly has documented that those never proved claims are not correct. Islam has given even stronger proofs for this by being unable to find one single proved falsification in all the literally tens of thousands of relevant old manuscripts or fragments.
Besides; what do humans know about what a god wishes? - f.x. of some company?
021 4/172a: “Christ disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah.” In 3/51a is implicated in the explanation why this is wrong. The only possible exception is if Yahweh and Allah really is the same god. But only Islam states that, and the teachings of Yahweh (especially in NT and the New Covenant – f.x. Luke 22/20) are so different, at all essential points, from the teachings of Allah, that they cannot be the same god unless he is mentally ill (schizophrenic). Islam will in case have to prove what they say, not only to claim it.
022 4/172b: “Christ disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah.” Strongly contradicted by the Bible, which says Jesus' god was Yahweh (also indicated by the history). Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.
023 5/17a: "In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ - - -." No Christian - not one single one - says that Allah (or Yahweh) = Jesus. Yahweh and Jesus are separate, but closely connected only. To use an Irish picture: Together with the Spirit they make up the 3 parts of a clover leaf. As for the Trinity, though, Islam may be right, as this is not clearly a part of the Bible (though Jesus said: "My Father (Yahweh/God) and I are one" - may be figuratively meant). But no Christian says Yahweh/God = Jesus.
A picture may be: Yahweh = the god. Jesus = a co-worker and/or friend. The Holy Spirit = the messenger - an errand boy and helper. Or the King, the crown-prince and the chief of staff or something.
*024 5/17b: “In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ (= put another god by Allah’s side – the ultimate and unforgivable sin according to 4/48 and 4/116*)". No Christian says that Jesus is Allah or the other way around. Neither do they say that Jesus is Yahweh. Also Muhammad never understood the trinity dogma of the Christians. (He believed the trinity consists of Yahweh, Jesus and Mary!!!). But if one looks only at that dogma, Islam may be right that it is not correct - may be. It is only a dogma decided on by humans after much discussion; it is not part of the Bible. (This dogma is from the 4. century, and it got its present form from the so-called Cappadocian Fathers (Gregory of Nyassa (332-395), Basil the Great, of Caesarea (329 or likely 330-79), Gregory of Nazeanzus (329-389 - brother of Basil the Great)). The nearest you come in the Bible is that Jesus said that he and his father, Yahweh, were one.) Also see 5/17a and 5/73b.But no-one in his right mind and with some knowledge about the Bible, would ever believe Mary was part of the trinity. Any even baby god had known. Then who made the Quran?
025 5/46a: “- - - we (Allah*) sent Jesus - - -". Well, according to the Bible Jesus was sent by Yahweh.
*026 5/46e: “We (Allah*) sent him (Jesus‘) the Gospel (a Gospel = the story about Jesus' life, death, resurrection, and ascension to heaven) - - -”. Any god had known that the Gospels did not exist at the time of Jesus - the oldest one of the 4 was written about 1 generation after his death. (Islam tries to get out of this fix by claiming the Quran talks about an older Gospel. And actually there may have existed an older one. But as a Gospel as mentioned is the story of Jesus' life, death, resurrection, and ascension to Heaven, also this one in case could not be written until after all had happened - not unless there is full predestination, and thus no free will for man. And only the Quran claims predestination - one more serious difference between the two books and the two religions, proving once more that Yahweh and Allah are not the same god. See 3/3g-k and 3/48 above.
When it comes to foretelling about Muhammad, which is mentioned in the Quran, it seems that just this was and is more essential to Islam and Muslims, than to Muhammad himself, because he did not return to that topic often (or maybe he was careful because he suspected or knew it was not true?). For Islam and Muslims it is an essential question, however, because Islam has not one single valid proof neither for Allah nor for Muhammad’s connection to a god – a real foretelling had been if not a proof, then at least a good indication. There exists no such one in the Bible, in spite of Islam's claims - they cherry-pick and then twist some words and quote them out of context (in stark contradiction to their own claim that f.x. in the Quran you have to take whole surahs or the whole book into consideration to be able to decide what a point or a verse means - "one rule for Loki and one for Thor"), and try to make it look like foretelling about Muhammad, but they can cheat only people not knowing the Bible.
Besides the Quran tells that Muhammad is easy to find both in OT and NT, and then Islam has to find him “come Hell or high water” – if not the Quran is wrong and then something is wrong with the religion. An indication of how essential this claim is to the Muslim clergy, is that in Hadiths – f.x. Al-Bukhari – you find “quotations” about Muhammad presumably taken from the Bible and presumably quoted from the Bible at about the time of Muhammad (and thus it is impossible even for Islam to claim that the Bible is falsified afterwards), which are not from the Bible, but the commentators do not whisper one word about that the quotes are wrong, but just let readers who do not know the Bible (= f.x. 99.9% of the Muslims) believe it is a “bona fide” and correct quote). An Al-Taqiyya.
027 5/72a: “They (Christians*) do blaspheme who say: ‘God is Christ the son of Mary.’ - - - and the Fire will be their abode.” This clearly contradicts – and abrogates:
- 2/62: “- - - those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabeans any who believe in Allah (Yahweh = Allah according to the Quran*) and the Last Day, and work in righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord - - -.”
- 5/69: “Those who (believe in the Quran), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabeans – any who believe in Allah (here included Yahweh/God*) and the Last day, and work righteousness – on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.”
##028 5/72g: “But said Christ; ‘O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord‘”. If Jesus had tried to teach about the in Israel known polytheistic god al-Lah from a heathen neighboring country, he had got very few followers and had been quickly killed by the clergy in the religious climate in Israel at that time. This is told by someone not knowing the religious and political situation in Israel at the time of Jesus.
029 5/76a. "Will ye (Christians*) worship, besides Allah (Jesus*) - - -". No Christian worships something besides Allah. They do not believe in Allah at all, and worship another god, Yahweh, INSTEAD OF Allah. There is a huge difference between these two concepts. (Oh, we know the Quran claims - and as normal for the Quran without proofs - that Yahweh and Allah are the same god, but their teachings are far too different for that to be true.)
030 5/76b. "Will ye (Christians*) worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you?" The word "something" here must refer to Mary and Jesus in the previous verse. When it comes to Mary and the Catholics, Muhammad here may have a point - saints are not an idea you find in the Bible. (On the other hand Catholics do not pray to a divine Mary, only to what they believe may be a helper to reach the divine.) As for Jesus we are back to the fact that he several places told he could help - - - and to the old fact that science and Islam both clearly has shown that the Bible is not falsified, even though Islam is dependent on this never documented claim for their religion to survive. (If the Bible is not falsified, it is ever so clear that then the Quran is a made up - false - book, as so much of what it claims the Bible tells or should tell, is not from the Bible.)
031 5/110c: "- - - I (Allah*) strengthened thee (Jesus*) with the holy spirit - - -". Contradicted by the Bible which tells it was Yahweh who did this. Also see 67/9c below - a strong one. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.
##032 5/110e: “I (Allah*) taught thee (Jesus*) - - - the Book - - -". "The Book" here means the Jewish scriptures and (wrongly as they did not exist yet); the Gospels.
##033 5/110f: “I (Allah*) taught thee (Jesus*) - - - the Gospel”. Wrong. The Gospels did not exist until some 25 - 30+ years after Jesus died (the oldest one of the 4 Gospels likely was written in 64 AD or a little earlier). See 3/3g-k and 3/48 above.
##034 5/110i: "And behold, thou (Jesus*) bringest forth the dead by My leave". For Muhammad it was essential to stress that it was not Jesus himself who resurrected the dead ones, but the god. (If it was Jesus himself, he clearly was a superior prophet to Muhammad - and Muhammad wanted to be the greatest). ####But the main thing here really is that if the Quran tells the truth here, it confirms that Jesus was connected to something supernatural and powerful - a god. For Muhammad and Allah this never and nowhere is proved - not one single time (of course Islam still will claim Allah = Yahweh, but the teachings fundamentally are so different that this only is possible if the god is strongly schizophrenic). Similar in 3/49b.
Remember here that science - and Islam - strongly has proved that the god of the Jews - and thus of Jesus - at the time of Jesus, was Yahweh, and that no god like Allah. No religion like Islam, no god like Allah, and no book like the Quran existed in the entire Roman Empire or anywhere else at that time. Jesus' power thus came from Yahweh, not from Allah.
035 5/114c: "(Jesus said*) O Allah our Lord - - -". Allah or Yahweh? No comment should necessary.
*036 5/117a: (Jesus said*): “Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord”. A story made up to strengthen Islam. If Jesus had said things like this about the known foreign and pagan god al-Lah/Allah, he had got very few followers - - - and had been killed within months by the Jewish clergy. See 3/51a above for further explanation.
037 6/73d: "- - - He (Allah*) saith, 'Be', behold, it is." The Quran other places claims Jesus could not be the son of the god, because the god had no woman (wrong: In the very old Hebrew religion there was a female - Yahweh's Amat - but over centuries and millenniums she was forgotten in that very masculine society. (Source: New Scientist and others). Thus the god might have got a son in the "normal" way in spite of the Quran's words about this a couple of places. But may be the god said: "Be a son", and behold, Jesus was. And who are we who say that a god does not like a son?
Also see 3/69c above.
038 6/100g: "- - - (Allah is*) above what they (many non-Muslims*) attribute to Him!" Here is meant he is above having children - but who knows what a god likes? And when it comes to Yahweh and Jesus, Jesus many times called Yahweh his father, and called himself the son - and even the Quran tells that Jesus was reliable.
039 6/101c: “- - - how can he (Yahweh*) have a son when He hath no consort?” Wrong - and the Quran has itself given one possible solution: It declares that the god may just say “Be” and it is. May be Yahweh just said “Be a son”, and Jesus was. See f.x. 3/69c.
##But there is another, but little known fact: In the very old Jewish religion there was a female god, too. They spoke about the god and his Amat (source among others “New Scientist”). In the very masculine society of the old Hebrews, the goddess was forgotten, though, - - - but it was possible for Yahweh to have a son “the natural way”. Gods would know this, but Muhammad not. Also see 17/111.
But why should gods make children the same way as humans and animals? Similar claim in 18/5 – 112/3.
040 9/30e: “- - - the Christians call Christ the son of God - - - (in this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old (the Jews*) used to say (wrong - Jews NEVER called Jesus the son of Yahweh*). Allah’s curse be on them: - - -”. We are back to the old facts: Jesus himself many times called God “father”. There were lots of witnesses to this. It was written down a few years later. The Quran vehemently denies it. The Quran has neither witnesses nor any other proofs. The Quran was written more than 600 years later and all the same offers only claims and statements - not one document. Muhammad had a lot to gain if Jesus was not the son of God - if Jesus is closely related to God, Muhammad obviously is not the greatest of prophets (irony; he in reality was no real prophet as he did not have the gift of being able to make prophesies - he never even claimed or pretended to have it), and though Muslims may be right that Muhammad personally did not care all too much about money except for using it for bribes, there is no doubt that he liked power and that he spent large sums for “buying” followers (his lust for power is easy to see from the texts in the Quran and the Hadiths). The end of the quote is rather sympathetic (?!). Similar statements in 2/116 – 4/171 – 10/68 – 17/111 – 18/4 – 18/5 -19/88-89 – 23/91 – 25/2.The reason for this quote may be threefold:
- Muhammad’s obsession with that there only was one god.
- The fact that if Jesus in some way was the son of God/Yahweh, Muhammad very obviously was not the greatest of prophets.
- If Jesus was the son of the god, would be difficult to make people listen to Muhammad and not to the Bible – tales about falsified Bible or not.
If Muhammad partly believed in his own religion, point 1 may have been the main one. If he did not – and very clearly he knew that parts of it were not true (f.x. the explanations why he could not make miracles) – parts 2 and 3 were the main ones (minding his platform of power). Science suspects that he believed at least some of what he told in the beginning - may indicate f.x. TLE (Temporal Lobe Epilepsy) - but that he became more "relaxed" in his perhaps belief over some years.
041 9/31e : "- - - yet they (the Christians*) were commanded to worship but One God - - -". Muhammad never understood the Christian religion and thinking. According to Christians there is only one god. Then there is a figure - a helper or something (the son, Jesus) - who in reality gets his light and his power from God/Yahweh. And finally there is something more diffuse and seldom seen; The messenger boy or something named the Holy Spirit (sometimes wrongly claimed to be the arch angel Gabriel by Muslims, who have never read the Bible, or who have read it with a closed mind). To use a picture: There is one sun. Then there is a moon which gets its light from the sun. And there is the seldom seen satellite somewhere around. But only one sun. And that is the complete "pantheon". To mix Mary into the Trinity (like Muhammad does at least one place in the Quran) just is one more proof for that no god made the Quran, and for that Muhammad did not understand the trinity. Mary and the other saints (only for the Catholics, and not for all of them) are not divine. In Islam some good Muslims end in the higher heavens closer to Allah. In the same way Catholics believe that some really good Christians end up closer to God in Heaven - though figuratively. And just like Muhammad claimed he can interfere for whom he like on the Last Day, Catholics believe that as these normal, but good, humans called saint can interfere with God on our behalf, as they are closer to him. But as this is not a part of the Bible, the Protestants - and the Sunni Muslims - may be right: May be there are no saints (though to Muslims Muhammad is a saint in everything but the name).
042 10/68b: “Allah hath begotten a son!” An exclamation in disbelief. But Jesus many, many times called God/Yahweh his father (the word “father” (of Jesus) is used for God/Yahweh at least 204 times in NT and the word “son” (of God/Yahweh) is used for Jesus at least 89 times.) Some of the times it is meant figuratively, but most times it is clear it is meant literally. And even the Quran says Jesus was reliable - and both science and Islam have proved that the Bible is not falsified.
##043 16/40: "- - - to anything which We (Allah*) willed, We but could say the Word 'Be' and it is." Allah can predestine or create anything just by saying it - and by the way: ######He also just could say: "Be a son, and Jesus was" (no female necessary). Also see 3/69c.
044 17/1d: “- - - the Sacred Mosque - - -". Kabah in Mecca. But even how sacred it is, neither Kabah nor Mecca is mentioned anywhere in the Bible. AND NOT ONE OF THE Biblical PROPHETS, INCLUDED JESUS, EVER MENTIONED EVEN A WISH FOR VISITING THIS CLAIMED MOST HOLY PLACE ON EARTH - NOR EVEN A WISH FOR A HAJJ.
*045 17/111b: “- - - Allah, Who begets no son - - -”. Well, Jesus called Yahweh “father” many times (the word "father" for the relationship Yahweh/Jesus is used at least 204 times in the Bible, and the word "son" at least 89 times - frequently by Jesus, whom also the Quran says was reliable - and remember: The Bible is proved not falsified). Besides it is funny to read the Quran scolding Arabs to believe Allah had daughters - al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat - because it is plain stupidity to believe a god who wanted family, would choose to have daughters. He was sure to choose sons. That "imbecility" was enough proof in the man-centered old Arabia, to “prove” that the very idea had to be wrong. But when Yahweh may be wanted some company - a son - that is said to be an utter impossibility in spite of this. Even more funny because the Quran, Muhammad, Islam and Muslims tell it is impossible for mere humans to understand a god - - - but everyone seems to be sure that a god wants to be alone, and neither do they ask if a god perhaps has a reason (one that we may or may not understand) for having a son, nor ask if he just wants company. Who knows a god's wishes?
*046 17/111c: “- - - and has no partner in (His) dominion - - -”. Well, Islam says that Allah is the same god as Yahweh. If we discuss from that hypothetical statement just here and say Allah = Yahweh: In the very old Hebrew religion there was a female partner/wife of Yahweh - his Amat (source: New Scientist and at least two others). In the strictly masculine Semitic culture the Amat was forgotten over the centuries. But maybe she still existed all the same at the time of Muhammad - and maybe even today? Also see 25/2 and 72/3 below.
047 18/4d: "(It is wrong*) that Allah hath begotten a son”. Well, we are back to the old facts that Jesus according to the Bible - written on the background of thousands of witnesses/listeners - many times called God/Yahweh Father (Yahweh is called the father of Jesus at least 204 times in the Bible, and Jesus the son of Yahweh at least 89 times - many of those cases by Jesus himself, a very reliable person also according to the Quran), that humble humans - f.x. Muhammad - are unable to understand completely the ways and wishes of a god (may be Yahweh wanted a son for some reason), and that Islam has to deny that Jesus was the son of Yahweh, in order to make (or pretend?) Mohammad the greatest prophet. Besides: Where are Islam’s proofs? - in spite of Islam’s glorifying of blind belief - a psychologically wise slogan when all they have are doubtful and at least partly wrong texts from a doubtful, self proclaimed “prophet” of at least as doubtful character - it is naïve in the extreme to believe blindly in so serious matter as eternity. If your chosen religion is a made up one - which every blind believer in every religion believes just their religion is not - where do you end if there is a next life? - and what if there is a real religion that you have not found, because of your blindness. Perhaps all religions are made up and just are a result of an inner longing in some people for something absolute (science have found that many weak - and some stronger - souls have such a longing in their genes or psyche - one of the genes active here is the gene VMAT2, according to The American Institute of Cancer Research, who stumbled across it in their research for cancer genes), but in that case one at least does not have to make life as miserable for ones fellow men (and even more for the women) as Islam preaches - dishonesty, hate, rape, stealing, enslavement, and war.
048 18/5c: “What they (the Christians*) say (about Jesus being the son of Yahweh*) is nothing but falsehood”. Tell that to all the witnesses who heard Jesus say so. There were so many listening to Jesus, that if a thing like this (Jesus calling Yahweh his father, and obviously in a traditional meaning - though perhaps a created, not a born son) was a lie, but was written in scripts meant for many to read, there had been serious protests and corrections. We do not say Jesus spoke the truth - even if he is accepted also by Islam to be an honest prophet. But we say it is highly unlikely that he did not say - many times - that Yahweh was his father and he himself the son of Yahweh. There simply were too many witnesses to what he said.
049 19/21a: "- - - (We (Allah*) wish to appoint him (Jesus*) as a Sign onto Us - - -". If the old books tell the truth, Jesus definitely was a sign - but for Yahweh, not for the claimed, but never proved god Allah.
050 19/21c: "- - - (Jesus will be) a mercy from Us (Allah*) - - -". We think it is no big secret that the Bible contradicts this and says Jesus was from Yahweh.
##051 19/30b: “I (baby Jesus*) am indeed a servant of Allah, - - -”. See 3/51 above.
052 19/35a: “It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son”. We hope it really is the god that is talking here, because if it is Muhammad; how is a human to know what is befitting for a god? - and majesties often have children - many children. F.x. Ramses II had 67 sons (well, the number varies some from one source to another) and an unknown number of daughters, and Djingis Khan had so many children that science still can trace his DNA in Asia (source: New Scientist). And if this statement is true, there is the enigma of Jesus’ saying “father” and “my father” about Yahweh (the word “father” (of Jesus) is used at least 204 times in the Bible, and the word “son” at least 89 times about the relationship between Yahweh and Jesus according to our latest leafing through the Bible – frequently by Jesus himself), and both the Bible and the Quran says Jesus was honest - and science has showed that the Bible is not falsified in spite of Islam's never documented claims. (Also remember: Muhammad calls Yahweh Allah, as he insists it is the same god - something that is possible only if Yahweh/Allah is schizophrenic as there are too many and too grave differences between the two teachings.) Also see 3/59c above, and 19/92 – 37/152 – 37/180 below.
053 19/35b: “It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son”. Why not?
054 19/35c: "- - - He (Allah*) only says to it, 'Be', and it is." May be Yahweh only said "Be", and Jesus was. Also see 3/59c above.
055 19/88-89: “They say: ’(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!’ Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!” See among others 19/35a above.
056 19/89b: "Indeed ye (Christians*) have put forth a thing most monstrous (that Jesus is the son of Yahweh*)!" If Jesus is the son of Yahweh/God, Muhammad impossibly can be the greatest of prophets. On the other hand one cannot totally omit that may be Muhammad really wanted the god to be the only big one, (and believed Christians had Jesus as god number 2 (and Mary(!!) as number 3 in the trinity)).
057 19/92b: “For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son”. Who is capable of telling this? - remember the Quran is not from any god, and who else can tell what fits a god?
058 21/22h: "- - - (high is He (Allah*)) above what they (non-Muslims^*) attribute to Him (= other gods*)." This may also be a dismissal of Jesus as son of Yahweh, as Muhammad claims that the god is "high above" having sons. Muhammad did not like the thought of Jesus as the son of the god, partly because he did not understand the Christian thoughts about this, and though it was polytheism, and partly because if Jesus was the son of the god, Muhammad impossibly could be the greatest of prophets.
059 21/26a: “And they say ‘(Allah) Most Glorious has begotten offspring’. Glory to Him! They are (but) servants raised to honor. We do not know what is the truth about al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat - the daughters of al-Lah/Allah in the old Arab religion. But Jesus at least told many times that Yahweh was his father.
060 23/91a: “No son did Allah beget - - -”. Perhaps not. But if Islam still says that Allah = Yahweh, it is sure that the Bible says that Jesus called Yahweh his father many times and to MANY listeners. (And we have found far, far fewer mistakes in the Bible - and especially in NT - than we have found in the Quran, even though we red also the Bible with critical eyes). And: Also the Quran tells Jesus was honest. And finally: Both science and Islam have clearly shown that the Bible is not falsified - in spite of Islam's never documented claim. Remember f.x. the combination Jesus/the Qumran scrolls = one more proof for that also OT is not falsified. (According to our latest leafing through the Bible, Yahweh is called the father of Jesus minimum 204 times and Jesus the son of Yahweh minimum 89 times in that book. Roughly half the times this is said by Jesus).
061 24/2c: “The woman and the man guilty of adultery of fornication – flog each of them with a hundred stripes: let not compassion move you (Muslims*) in their case, in a Matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment”. Compare this to Jesus: "The one who is without sin, may throw the first stone". The same god? Jesus and Muhammad in the same line of prophets? No.
062 25/2d: “- - - no son has He (Allah*) begotten - - -”. If Allah is another god than Yahweh, this may be correct. If Islam insists Allah is just another name for Yahweh (which it cannot be, because too many fundamental aspects of the teachings are too different) it may be another question, as Jesus frequently called Yahweh his father in front of many witnesses. The word “Father” is used at least 204 times in the Bible for Yahweh’s relationship to Jesus, and “son” at least 89 times for Jesus’ relationship to Yahweh according to our last leafing through the Bible - and we still hardly have found all. Roughly half the times it is said by Jesus - a reliable person also according to the Quran.
063 30/54c: "- - - He (Allah*) creates as He wills - - -". Why then should he not be able to create a son if he wished? - and no mortal can know or understand what a god may wish.
064 33/7e: "- - - Jesus the son of Mary - - -". See 5/110a above.
065 37/152: “’Allah hath begotten children‘? But they are liars!” May be Allah has no children. But if Allah = Yahweh like Muslims like to claim, there is the curious fact that Jesus many, many times called Yahweh his father - and clearly not like an allegory or figuratively.
066 39/4a: "Had Allah wished to take Himself a son - - -". Who knows what a god wishes? - remember that the Quran and its mistakes are not from any god, and neither devils nor humans (the only possible makers of the Quran) know everything a god may wish. Also see 14/19d above.
067 39/4b: "Had Allah wished to take to Himself a son, He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create - - -". Which may be was what he did (but which neither Muhammad nor Islam could/can accept, because for one thing then Muhammad is not the greatest of self proclaimed prophets, and for another: Then they must admit that something is seriously wrong with the religion. Better with blind belief, than to have to do a real check and may be find out that the religion is a made up one.
068 39/4d: "(He (Allah*) is above such things (having a son))". The Quran is not made by any god - no god uses so many wrong facts and other mistakes. And who else but a god knows what is above a god or what is his wish? Invalid argument as it is lacking a basis for the conclusion, as the underlying arguments are invalid.
##069 39/4f: (YA4246): "It is blasphemy to say that Allah begot a son. If that were true, He should have had a wife - - -". This argument is nonsense in this case. For one thing Islam claims that Allah is the same god as Yahweh, a claim which was never proved - perhaps because the Quran shows that the two are far too different to be one and the same. Besides it is known that in the really old times Yahweh had a female companion - his Amat (source New Scientist and others). Even if this is not widely known, it is unlikely that a learned man like Abdullah Yusuf Ali did not know it. And what is 110% sure he knew is that according to the Quran if the god wished something "He just could say 'Be' and it was" - the god just could say "Be a son" and Jesus was. This simply is one of the many places where Muslims find the answer they want, by omitting facts which make their wanted answer invalid and often even impossible. (See f.x. 3/59c.)
###070 40/68b: " - - - He (Allah*) says to it, 'Be' and it is". And who knows - maybe he once said: "Be a son" and Jesus was. What human are able to understand the unfathomable thoughts and wishes of an omniscient god?
###071 43/59c: "- - - We (Allah*) made him (Jesus) an example - - -". According to the Bible the god of Jesus was Yahweh, and in a way worse for the Quran: We are now on safe historical ground. It is well documented that the god of the Jews at this time was Yahweh - and that the religion at this time was so strong among the Jews, that Jesus had gotten few followers if he tried to talk about a known pagan god, al-Lah - from a neighboring country. Not to mention that if he had tried to mix him up with Yahweh, the establishment had had him executed much earlier. The claim that a god with a teaching like in the Quran was dominant in Israel, was and is not only contradicted by the Bible, but is historically wrong. Also see 13/1g and 67/9c - 2 strong ones. But of course it is ok for Islam to prove - prove - the Bible wrong and the Quran right. But as we say: Prove, not just lose claims and as lose and invalid words like the Quran always use instead of proofs.
072 43/61a: "And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment) - - -.” It is not said in the Quran with its "clear and easily understood language" how he shall be a sign. Most Muslim scholars guess it refers to his second arrival on Earth.
###073 43/63c: “(Jesus said*): therefore fear Allah - - -”. As said before: If Jesus had been a missionary for the known polytheistic god al-Lah from a not too far of country, he for one thing had got very few followers in the at that time strictly monotheistic Israel, and for another thing he had been killed by the clergy long before - especially if he all the same got a big following like he really got. This is a tale told by someone who knew the religious and political situation in Israel around year 30 AD badly. Besides it are historical facts that the god of the Jews at that time, was Yahweh, and that the teaching had very little to do with the one in the Quran.
074 43/64a: “(Jesus said): For Allah, He is my Lord and your Lord - - -”. See 43/63a and 43/63b above. We may add that starters of new religions or sects often try to “high-jack” well known persons or situations to use it in their teachings - it may give it weight. This may look like such a case.
075 43/81b: “If (Allah) Most Gracious had a son, I (Muhammad*) would be the first to worship”. ####Some proof!! But for that: There still is Jesus calling Yahweh father. And any neutral professor of history would say that according to all normal rules, the Bible should be more reliable than the Quran as a source of correct history: Very much closer in time to Jesus, thousands of witnesses, many narrators, versus one single narrator without good sources and 600 years later - and the narrator even a man of dubious character and with strong motifs to reduce Jesus, to become the greatest prophet himself - and a man clearly lusting for power (just read the Quran and the Hadiths - it is easy to see f.x. his gluing himself to the god and platform of power.). A man who definitely had not been accepted as a reliable witness in any country with a reliable judicial system. (The real and historical Muhammad was something quite different from the glossy semi-saint Islam and Muslims claims – a claim made necessary because all Islam only is built on this man’s words - if he lies, the religion is a false one). Also: Science has showed that the never documented Islamic claim about falsification of the Bible is wrong. And as interesting: No serious professor of history uses material from before 610 AD in the Quran as proofs for anything.
###176 57/27c: This is one of the serious ones: “- - - (Allah*) bestowed on him (Jesus*) the Gospel - - -”. For one thing is seems that Muhammad did not know there were 4 Gospels - he always used singular. Worse is that the Gospels were all written after his (Jesus') death. Muslims try to “save the day” by insisting that Allah used another Gospel which is now disappeared - a standard way for Muslims to “explain” difficult points, and as normal without documentation. But in this case they may even be right - there may have existed an older one (the possible source for 3 of the known Gospels). The bad news is that we know that if it ever existed, also that one was written after Jesus was dead, because a Gospel is the story of Jesus’ life and death, resurrection, and ascension to Heaven, and it could not be written until after this had happened (and that possible Gospel in case means that there is even shorter time between Jesus and the first written Gospels - and thus the "copies" are even more reliable). Muslims also never mention the other possible explanation for why the 3 are so similar: That the oldest have been model for the two others. (In this case there was no older Gospel they partly copied.)
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#### 077 66/12c: (A66/26): “- - - We (Allah*) breathed into (her (Mary’s*) body) Our spirit - - -.” Does this refer to how Jesus was created? – or does it refer to the "normal" transfer of spirit that according to Islam makes a fetus to a human, and which according to Islam happens 5 months before the baby is born? Nobody knows – and this is an essential question in just this case. But the text is not clearer than this.
According to the fact that Mary was a virgin (according to several points in the Quran - 3/47, 19/20, 21/91, 66/12), though, she could not be the carrier of a fetus. Thus this has to be the very "start" of Jesus - the creation of him. And note that according to this verse it was done by the god personally: "'We' breathed into her 'Our' spirit - - -". (This way of using the words "We" and "Our" is named "royal 'We'", and is used by kings, etc. in formal speech instead of "I" and "my".) There thus is no doubt that Jesus was "started" by the god himself. This also goes even if it here is meant that the god blew the soul/personality/mind into Jesus at the 4-month stage, as it after all is the soul/person/mind which counts in the case of Jesus, not the body. We may add that there is no way of believing that if the god personally started the growth of a fetus, that fetus was to become an ordinary man - this even more so if you combine this verse with 19/19, telling that Mary would get a holy son.In spite of Muslim scholars' debates about this, there really is only one possible conclusion here: The god "started" Jesus - and the male who "starts" a baby, is the father of that baby. THUS THE QURAN HERE DIRECTLY CONFIRMS THAT JESUS WAS THE SON OF THE GOD (AND 19/19 CONFIRMS THAT HE WAS HOLY) - this in spite of Muhammad's repeated claims about the opposite, as Jesus the son of the god would make Muhammad maximum messenger number 2 (and Muhammad wanted respect and power). Muhammad clearly accepted the use of dishonesty as working tools - this is clear from several points in the Quran. He also personally used dishonesty as a means - f.x. when murdering the peace delegation from Khaybar - and he lied at least a few times in the Quran (some cases are listed in "1000+ Mistakes in the Quran"). But the problem when lying is not to make up a lie, but not to say things in other connections which shows that this and this was a lie. Also remember that in such cases what is said unconsciously is more reliable than what is claimed very consciously. About Jesus Muhammad claims Jesus was number 2, but here and in 19/19 stumbles and divulges that Jesus for one thing really was the son of the god, and that he was holy.
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##078 72/3a: “- - - He (Allah*) has taken neither a wife - - -". This is one of Muhammad's "proofs" for that Jesus could not be the son of the god (Muhammad wrongly claimed that Yahweh = Allah). But the "proof" is without meaning or value, as the Quran more than once states that when Allah wants something, "he just says 'Be, and it is'". Allah or Yahweh just could say "Be a son" and Jesus was. (See f.x. 3/59c and even more so 66/12c above.)
This that one argument or claim kills another, is pretty common among Muslims. They meet a difficult fact. A fact regularly consists of several aspects and/or is built on different underlying facts, and/or its conclusion(s) must fit other information not to be proved untrue. Famous samples are the impossible conflict between Allah's claimed total predestination and man's claimed free or partly free will, and f.x. Muslim's claim that the Quran describes a scientifically correct astronomy, versus what the Quran really tells about this. Or the hopeless tries to explain away the 7 heavens or the 7 earths. What they very often do, is to take one aspect of a case, "solve" that by a - sometimes logically correct - claim, argument or fact - and voila! the case is solved! Even if you point to impossibilities and collisions with other points in the Quran, they often are reluctant to leave their wrong conclusions. They f.x. may have nice "proofs" for that the Quran foretold science by giving a scientifically correct picture of the universe - without then explaining how the stars then can be fastened to the lowest of 7 heavens (37/6-7, 41/12) below the moon (as the moon is claimed to be between the heavens, and thus above the lowest of them. Or how the Quran can be claimed to be explaining the universe with all its empty space and vacuum, when the Quran tells the 7 heavens are material (if not the stars could not be fastened to one like the Quran both claims and states).
#079 72/3b: “- - - He (Allah*) has taken neither a wife nor a son.” If Allah is not the same god as Yahweh, this may be true. But if the two are the same, like the Quran without any documentation claims: Well, Jesus called him “father” many times (the word is used for the relationship between Yahweh and Allah at least 204 times, and the word "son" at least 89 times in the Bible - often by Jesus himself, and Jesus was reliable also according to the Quran) in front of thousands of witnesses. And as for a wife: In the really old Hebrew religion the god had a female companion - his Amat (source: New Scientist and others). But in the very male culture she was forgotten. Also see 17/111b+c above.
080 112/3: “He (Allah*) begetteth not - - -.” Well, if Allah should happen to be the same god as Yahweh all the same, Jesus many times called Yahweh “father” and many times said he was the son of Yahweh – and lots/most of those times it is clear it was meant in the real meaning. In the NT it is said at least 204 times that Yahweh was father of Jesus, and at least 89 times that Jesus was the son of Yahweh. It is said nothing about how the relationship started. If true, there are 3 possibilities:
- The age-old and mostly forgotten story about a female counterpart of Yahweh – the Amat of Yahweh - in the very distant past of the Hebrew pre-history, is true. Then the “Amat” of Yahweh may be the heavenly mother of Jesus.
- Yahweh may have created him. As it is said in both the Bible and even more in the Quran, the god only could say “be” and it was. May be the god said “be a son” and Jesus was. (See f.x. 3/59c above.)
- Also Jesus may have existed since eternity.
Similar claim in 6/101.
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This work was upload with assistance of M. A. Khan, editor of islam-watch.org and the author of "Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism, and Slavery".